Content and design go hand in hand, but there's some confusion as to who is responsible for supplying the content.

From your experience, what content do you feel is the responsibility of the designer and what content is the responsibility of the client?



[Edited on 15-8-2002 by halfpiint]

is this a poll?
Ok, I think the designer is incharge of the menu text. Otherwise, the client should provide all the information they want on thier site.

I'm agrre with avnon, but some times the designer have to help the client with the content. that is my case :crazy:

If the client wants animated gifs of monkeys peeling bananas all over his/her site then "banana peeling Monkeys" is what they get. As long as they pay the bill.

If the client comes to you and says, "Hell man I realy respect what you do with Web Design, I'll leave the whole thing up to you", I as a web designer would say...

"Oh, your too kind. That will be 60% of the total fee up front"

Web design is no different to House building or landscape gardening. Give em what they want and set the pricing contract so you get what you want.


If your question is about who has the right to influence the design of a web page my answer is


THE OWNER OF THE WEB PAGE.

If you, as a designer dont like what they like, say "see you later mate"

John

I've overseen the design of 4 major corp web sites now, and in all cases designers have only wanted to design. Company or third party supplies copy.

The client supplies the logo and the text -> content. It's up to the designer to try and create an interesting design that satisfies both him/herself and the client. As a designer you're obligated to use the color scheme and logo's and this can be very frustrating, it can also be stimulating and thought provoking. It's also very scary -> the big question is always; will they like it? Which is why I allways make several designs. The sad fact is: the client wil allways choose the worst (and plainest) design you make (make it a new Murphys Law).

Bombus

[Edited on 16-8-2002 by Bombus : I didn't! Clicked on 'edit' by accident!]

Hell man I realy respect what you do with Web Design, I'll leave the whole thing up to you", I as a web designer would say... Oh, your too kind. That will be 60% of the total fee up front"

:laugh:


The sad fact is: the client wil allways choose the worst (and plainest) design you make (make it a new Murphys Law).


:laugh:
Wisom in all those words!

=== Since I'm learning on my own, I've done freebies or barters, in my spare time [ :confused:. ] No money or products changed hands, just time. but after getting sued last fall I've haven't had the desire to design anything since! :(

Until now. Even thou the current design is for dear friends, I did create a "presentation" frameset where they can easily view the progress and all the different versions of the frontpage so far for their selections. But, once again I'm having trouble getting content or descriptions of the services from the "client".

I always supplied the custom Logo & in the past, I'd spend 10-20 hrs researching similiar businesses online. but, not now. I'm not knocking myself out for free anymore. Don't misunderstand, I'm always glad to help a friend, but they need to get involved as well. If they don't care, I start to not care. hope that makes sense.

On the other hand, if this project is genuinely for practice purposes & it is the designer's responsibility to research & create the content on what services they are suppose to offer, then I need to do this research and not gripe about it.

That's why I started this post. I needed some clarity on the designer's responsibilities?
I don't want to leave myself so vulnerable ever again, if I can help it. Hope that makes sense.

Well, this was more than I had intended to write,
Thank you again for all your feedback.
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So far I've encountered:

1. the client who provides cryptic notes [usually a few sentences describing the business, services etc}. Their unspoken expectations were either
a. to use their words verbatim or
b. develop and expand the entire site and content based on these notes

2. the clients who are anxious to see the visual design but drag their feet delivering even a basic outline or description of the business & its services til near end of the "promised time frame". Then gets angry when the design is not completed when they expected it.

Simple: I don't start designing anything untill I've had several meetings with a client to get a clear picture of what they want. Usually I get free reign design wise.

What I'm curious about is why you got sued?

I never begin on a project without a signature and 50% of the fee. I also don't think the 'cliënt' should have too much say in the design. They hire you for that purpose. I spend more time working out a website on paper than sitting behind the pc, and once everything is clear to me and the cliënt is satisfied with it do I start working on the site (building it).

This means that you place text / links / images etc. on the page for a reason, you've worked it out and everyone is satisfied -> but if the cliënt say's 'I want the links there' then my whole design will be ruined.

If I have a cliënt who wants monkeys peeling bananas all over the page then I would either try to find an interesting angle to create it -> or not bother.

BTW. The t'ai-chi site was my first Swish attempt (I only got paid for the phone bill). The person I made it for hated it when he first saw it, you know why? It was because when he clicked on the link and the site opened in the brouwser he had to scroll from left to right and from top to bottom and he was also annoyed that I had somehow added an Alta Vista site to the background.... Get the picture? -> the man had looked at the site without resizing the window! He liked it fine once I invited him over and gave him an elementary computer lesson....

Bombus

My :twocents:

The client is always right (or at least you should let them think so) if they want flying monkeys... give it to them, but also let them know that flying monkeys will take longer to download and cost more to design.

Above all, get it in writing and get a minimum of 50% upfront.

@LisaA.. I'll bet when you're finished it'll be a cute flying monkey design ;)

@Bombus.. the only reason I was sued was pure meanness when they were caught lying! Hopefully I learned some valuable lessons.



[Edited on 19-8-2002 by halfpiint]

Commonly these words get mixed up from several different takes on the meaning.

When a client contacts you and says you seem to know what you're doing so I'll leave it up to you, the client is asking for your services as a designer and your knowledge of what looks and feels good for the type of site in question. As a professional designer, it is your responsibility to understand the fundimentals of a good design, how a good design is interperated by the audience, and how to make a design attain the right feel.

With advancements in technology and the visual basis of our society as it exists right now, the design of a website has made it possible to convey a feel or emotion through the look of the graphics, motion, and the collaboration of sound in the whole design. This is the look and feel that is produced.

Now when a client comes to you and leaves the design job up to you, it is your responsability to make it look good, and the content delivery is on the part of the client.

However, if you are being hired to work with and develop a project, the content is also a viable part in the look and feel for the site, making it to an extent your responsibility. Mostly that responsibility is more of the placement and visual presence of that part.

The question itself is subject to different situations.

As a developer, you are the project along with the company. Meaning youa re a direct effect of the content that is put in.

For example with my position with the Spunk Network as a Creative Director, I am in charge of the creative department and the team that resides within that department (bing the designers that make the team) I am the one who decides what look and feel we are going to try to achieve. Now with the corporate site ( see the loading time test site here (http://www.km-studios.com/spnknet/layout.html) ) I was the one who helped [i]develop the way the content was displayed. Same goes with the flash presentation and the tease text (words) that go through the presentation. being responsible for the look and feel, every aspect counts to make the result of the work from my design team good.

Also having experience being the director of my studio, I've encountered all different kinds of situations. However, this is my final take on the topic.

Being hired by a client as a freelance designer or developer, you are in both cases being brought in as a temporary part of the company to help build the success of that company, as in our current time it has come to be that the entire forefront of a company is their website. This is why we are in business.

This is different for a design and development firm or studio in which case it is being brought in as an outside service, and is not required to help any aspect of the company in any way except for the asigned job for the look and feel. However, going the extra meter to help the client that bit more will go an entire mile for your reputation.

It is my nature to give 200% to whatever I do.
If my work helps a company toward success, then I'd feel I have accomplished my goal.

Then you have a good ideal and a good likelyhood for success.

I wish more people saw things this way :worry:

thank you for the encouragement.

I wish more people did too.

The amazing thing is the folks that will contact you, be extremely gung-ho about having someone design for them, pay a 50% retainer plus any extra up front expenses ... and then they're just sort of gone. It doesn't matter that they read the contract that states what content they are to provide. I think they think that the website or design fairy will come in the middle of the night and 'Poof!' they'll have a site or whatever designed with all of their information when they wake up one morning.

I have only had 2 local clients ... and they have both paid me 100% for websites that they still do not have. The one guy is a big builder ~~ and I even drove around to some of his contruction sites and took pictures (on my own time) to "move" the project along. I also suggested that if he were to just use a handheld tape recorder while he drove between job sites and talk out [dictate] what all he wanted in the site, that I would type it up and get it in there for him. Geez-la-weez! The guy still doesn't have a site! I made a site using his site photos, made up a bunch of content, and you know what his response was? "It looks great Jules!" Well, even after I have told him numerous times that the site is not 'live' because it contains bogus, made-up stuff, he is just fine with it ... and keeps telling me he'll get me content. [I'm just glad I didn't hold my breath!]

I always go above and beyond for my clients. I guess that's why I built my business without a website [I just took mine live in March or there abouts] and I never needed one. All of my biz comes from word of mouth, I always get a 50% retainer upfront, I always tell them what the 50% retainer gets them and if it goes beyond that then the other 50% is due, and I have had great successes over the last few years. But ... not with local clients! LOL

Just my little story/opinion. :cherry:

sadly, i dont have any clients, i wouldnt know...